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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 1:27:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 1:53:18 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 1:57:04 GMT -5
mmmm yeaaaa jazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 2:01:07 GMT -5
... will put jazz night in the list of events to do for this plan I doing for the local tea room, good place for poetry and small theatre as well, oh yes... events... i loves em.... thanks for the fabotastical video.... i knew, eventually, you would do something smart
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 2:09:26 GMT -5
Sydney detests jazz, Jason, but there is no doubt in my mind that it has emerged as a great artform in its own right over the course of the last century. All music is ultimately fusion, Sydney?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 2:19:56 GMT -5
Each to their own, I did rather enjoy the chat about mozart and the detailed info via radio 3 lastnight, while drinking greek wine and messing around with the fire. Sad chap mozart, could not delegate, life is a team game, wot wot
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Post by ahinton on Sept 27, 2013 4:56:55 GMT -5
Sydney detests jazz, Jason, but there is no doubt in my mind that it has emerged as a great artform in its own right over the course of the last century. All music is ultimately fusion, Sydney? Sydney is perfectly entitled to detest and deplore jazz if so he chooses (which indeed he obviously does) but, mindful of its history (as surely he must be), to write of it as though it should have been left in the couple of parts of Africa where he contends that it originated and to accuse it of not being a legitimate subject for academic musicological research - as well as to ignore the contributions to it made over generations by the distinguished musicians whose names I mentioned in the thread in which he expressed his view on the subject - is to put his head in sand where it has no place to be. To question what Brahms - of all people(!) - might have thought about it merely adds a frisson of absurdity to the trenchancy of his views.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 5:21:59 GMT -5
One could argue music is just a form of entertainment for cash.
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Post by ahinton on Sept 27, 2013 6:07:45 GMT -5
One could argue music is just a form of entertainment for cash. Which "one" could - let alone would - do that, how and why? - and whom if anyone might such an "argument" convince?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 7:44:45 GMT -5
As a businessman, I would certainly be prepared to make such an argument, ahinton! If the punters want to pay for jazz, or pop, or some other form of music, I am more than happy to sell such entertainment to them for a profit. Of course, I would be tempted not to make any aesthetic judgement about the quality of such music to my customers. Money talks, after all, although sometimes it needs interpretation! BBC News - Astley Castle wins Riba Stirling Prize for architectureMusic is a business and an industry in the same way that other artforms can be thought of as businesses. Architecture, for example, is an important artform which has an immediate and obvious impact upon our quality of life. Where we live depends upon the homes that we build, or restore! If I may nevertheless address your final question directly, ahinton: Such an "argument" might convince Jason, for example, or even "the consumer" of such "musical entertainment", or in the case of architecture, "house buyers"! Riba Stirling Prize
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 7:53:50 GMT -5
As a producer on a couple of projects I can see how different people can have different viewpoints.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 8:30:42 GMT -5
The deadly sin known as greed or avarice has always been associated not only with banking and hedge funds, Jason, but with capitalism and financial markets, a world which I have made my own over the course of my career. So it always gives me food for thought, if not a business lunch! People go to market to buy and sell, and some will inevitably be greedier than others to make a good profit from their labour, for example, me. We have, of course, evolved over millions of years to be competitive, and it is with our intellect that we have outcompeted the rest of the natural world! Even here in ' The Third', you can see different members attempting to defeat one another in online debate, ahinton! Yet you cannot simplify everything to a number. Or can you? Well, according to Albert Einstein, one of the world's greatest scientists, you can. Everything is relative to the speed of light, kleines 'c', which is one reason I still use 'c' as a nickname. The little letter appeals to my scientific mind. In medieval Umbria, a relatively wealthy young dandy called Francesco Bernadone once met a poor gentleman whose need seemed greater than his own, so he gave him his coat. That night, he had a dream that he should rebuild a celestial city, Jason, and he gave away his possessions so liberally that his father, a rich businessman, was moved to disown him. In reply, Francesco stripped completely. The local bishop of Assisi gave him a coat, and Francesco went off to live in the woods. For eight hundred years, capitalism has continued to grow, and yet St Francis's belief that in order to free the spirit, we must shed all our earthly wealth is the belief that all great religious teachers, whether eastern or western, northern or southern, have shared. Of course, here in the heart of London, we live in a world of trade and of money, full of hard-headed businessmen like kleines 'c'. Yet economics is not a sum zero game, Jason. The greatest practitioners of economics have always recognised the fragility of their own conclusions. The great philosopher, Baruch Spinoza, had a vision of the world as an absolutely unitary entity, any division of which was a mutilation. So do I. We are all part of a greater whole. Spinoza was one of the great polymaths of Western civilisation. He tried to produce a total view of reality which embraced both mathematical science and God. What he did was to adopt a global picture of seventeenth century natural science. Then he recommended religious attitudes to the world so conceived. Immanuel Kant picked up on Spinoza's vision, and arguably became the supreme system builder of modern philosophy. If we accept the principle of cause and effect, Kant thought that appearances can be deceptive. Perceiving subjects as such cannot but bring certain predispositions to bear, and only what fits in with those predispositions can be experienced. We see what our model of the world allows us to see, so to speak, Jason. Different people therefore almost inevitably have different viewpoints. David Hume set out to show that the paradoxes of different interpretations of history could be resolved once we recognised that space and time are not mysterious entities but simply the particular ordering in which our perceptions present themselves to us. In this sense, the unified view that each individual arrives at is likely to be different and, almost certainly in some instances, radically so. Nevertheless, ascribing independent reality to what you have in fact made yourself is a perfect definition of what the Jewish, Christian and Islamic Scriptures call idolatry. According to Rowan Williams, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, what the present anxieties and disasters should be teaching us is to ‘keep ourselves from idols’, in the biblical phrase: Even in its original Greek sense, economics, 'the management of the home and the estate', cannot really be considered in isolation. Events get in the way. According to Pericles, the man who can most truly be accounted brave is he who knows what is sweet in life and what is terrible, and then goes out undeterred to meet what is to come. So, I think, should we, Jason. As for the collapse of our global civilisation, life on earth and the universe, all this is inevitable. Even Einstein would agree, Jason. In the meantime, however, it makes sense to have some fun. We are all but vagrants on this piece of stardust called Earth! Enjoy what remains this weekend!
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Post by ahinton on Sept 27, 2013 9:31:12 GMT -5
As a businessman, I would certainly be prepared to make such an argument, ahinton! If the punters want to pay for jazz, or pop, or some other form of music, I am more than happy to sell it to them at a profit. Of course, I would be tempted not to make any aesthetic judgement about the quality of such music to my customers. Money talks, although sometimes it needs interpretation! You'd have a very hard time of it indeed trying to make that work for all music and all kinds of music; one has only to consider just how much of a minority interest "Western classical music" (for dire and desperate want of a more suitable term) is - and just how much of a minority interest within that minority interest so much music is that falls within its general scope. Music is a business and an industry in the same way that other artforms can be thought of as businesses. Architecture, for example, is an important artform which has an immediate and obvious impact upon our quality of life. But it's light years from being only a business; anything that involves providing someone providing something to others might be argued as needing to function to some degree as a business, but how many composers today go in for composition because they want or expect to run a successful business as such? If I may nevertheless address your final question directly, ahinton: Such an "argument" might convince Jason, for example, or even "the consumer" of such "musical entertainment", or in the case of architecture, "house buyers"! So, we (possibly) have Jason, certain consumers of an as yet unidentified "musical entertainment" (without any attempt being made in advance to determine or define what "entertainment" is supposed to mean in this context) and (some) house buyers who are irrelavant in the context of Jason's post which was only about music, not architecture or any of the other arts; not much of a tally, is it?!...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 9:54:42 GMT -5
On the contrary, ahinton, it is universal! Congratulations to all!
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Post by ahinton on Sept 27, 2013 10:05:13 GMT -5
On the contrary, ahinton, it is universal! What is? All of whom - and for what?
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