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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 1:26:53 GMT -5
Several of the more energetic among our membership have rambled off this week on an expedition up the North Face. This may therefore be the appropriate moment to create a thread about mountaineering. Do members feel that walking up mountains rather than clambering up them must be more of a pleasure? We invite them to describe any they have been up, and their feelings. Let us begin in one of the sad american vassal-states of the South Pacific. The highest mountain in those parts bears the name "Cozzy-Osko." Despite the fact that its summit is 7315 feet above the sea-level - compare Ben Nevis at only 4406 feet - this Cozzy-Osko may be ascended without setting foot upon it. A rough road leads to the very top, and a kind gentleman once took me up in his Chevrolet auto-mobile car. The view is distinctly uninspiring, if I may put it that way, and my main memory of the event after having ambled a little to and fro is of a certain shortness of breath owing to the altitude.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 2:30:47 GMT -5
Good morning, once again, to you all! If I may address your question directly, Sydney: " ... Do members feel that walking up mountains rather than clambering up them must be more of a pleasure?" I suppose that different things give different people pleasure. For example, the vast majority of people rarely listen to classical music (although they probably do listen to other music), and the (lack of) pleasure derived from such experiences is likely to vary between individuals and also within individuals. So I see it very much as horses for courses. As for mountains, well, some people like the physical challenge of rock or ice climbing, for example, and I would put myself in that category. In ' The Varieties of Religious Experience', William James gives the example of the mountaineer who must leap across a chasm if he is to save himself; the belief that he can do it adds to his chance of success; disbelief probably means failure. So it is with kleines c. The world continually presents options of this type, in which the confident outstrip the hesitant, Sydney. So we should. As for the pleasure of a good walk up a mountain, without the need to use one's hands to clamber up a precipice, this is arguably less challenging, although possibly even more pleasurable. Why climb a mountain (particularly when you can walk up it instead)? Because it's there?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 8:32:39 GMT -5
One mountain I did walk up is Ben Nevis (4406 feet). I waited for a sunny day, departed Balmoral mid-morning, motored through Inverness and past Loch Ness - has any one seen the monster? - and arrived at the foot of the mountain in time for luncheon. The path at the beginning looks exactly like this photograph: About half-way up, though, the earth is replaced by those horrid large black stones which are the blight of British mountains; "scree" is the word is it not. But one zig-zags up, as one does, and after a great gulf of time reaches a summit plateau with a great gulf to the north (rather like Mount Everest in that respect). I vaguely remember reading that people - scientific observers - either lived on the top for months at a time, or came up in a donkey-cart every morning - cannot remember the details). My descent was more tiring than the ascent, and about two thirds of the way down I began to feel somewhat spent in the legs. When one is in that condition on a mountain a little nourishment (not just fluid) works wonders. Sandwiches - any filling - a sine qua non what! Nevertheless the excursion is recommended to all our readers. Back along the Loch; attain the castle; good night's sleep; sense of achievement; nothing else of note sticks though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 11:02:11 GMT -5
If you climb up the path behind the house of john ruskin you will find nice views and lots of ferns, to hide your tent in, if wild camping for the night.
Mountains, the sublime.
You know, wagner liked to walk amongst the mountains, even the snowy ones, he said it was good therapy.
Thus Spake Wagner ?, an inspiration to philosophers for all time ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 5:08:24 GMT -5
In ' The Varieties of Religious Experience', William James gives the example of the mountaineer who must leap across a chasm if he is to save himself; the belief that he can do it adds to his chance of success; disbelief probably means failure. So it is with kleines c. The world continually presents options of this type, in which the confident outstrip the hesitant, Sydney. So we should. In - and from - the realm of thought mere repetition is excluded. Some one who simply parrots a set of words is not thinking, he is aping or posing. In order to think, one is obliged to leap into the unknown, trusting and believing that the outcome will be true and valuable. This kind of trust does not apply in the physical world though. A confident youth on some beach who scrambles thoughtlessly up a cliff may very well reach a spot at which he turns, looks down, and is suddenly terror-struck at the height of his situation and the impossibility of a descent. And then what? He would be ill advised to risk a leap from one dubious spot to a second, trusting in the success of his move. Better to stay put and call for a helico-pter.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 5:36:47 GMT -5
... Safer, perhaps, Sydney, but better, no! But what is good, let alone better, or even best? Prudence was considered by the ancient Greeks and later on by Christian philosophers, most notably Thomas Aquinas, as the cause, measure and form of all virtues. It is considered to be the ' auriga virtutum' or the charioteer of the virtues. It is the cause in the sense that the virtues, which are defined to be the "perfected ability" of man as a spiritual person (spiritual personhood in the classical western understanding means having intelligence and free will), achieve their "perfection" only when they are founded upon prudence, that is to say upon the perfected ability to make right decisions. For instance, a person can live temperance when he has acquired the habit of deciding correctly the actions to take in response to his instinctual cravings. Prudence is considered the measure of moral virtues since it provides a model of ethically good actions. "The work of art is true and real by its correspondence with the pattern of its prototype in the mind of the artist. In similar fashion, the free activity of man is good by its correspondence with the pattern of prudence." (Josef Pieper) For instance, a house buyer using his experience and all the data available to him decides that it is beneficial to sell a house in 2022 and buy a house in 2013. The content of the decision (the houses, time and means) is the product of an act of prudence, while the actual carrying out of the decision may involve other virtues like fortitude (doing it in spite of fear of failure) and justice (doing his job well out of justice to his family). The actual act's "goodness" is measured against that original decision made through prudence. In Greek and Scholastic philosophy, "form" is the specific characteristic of a thing that makes it what it is. With this language, prudence confers upon other virtues the form of its inner essence; that is, its specific character as a virtue. For instance, not all acts of telling the truth are considered good, considered as done with the virtue of honesty. What makes telling the truth a virtue is whether it is done with prudence. Telling a competitor the professional secrets of your company is not prudent and therefore not considered good and virtuous. Clambering down a cliff to safety is ultimately a matter of judgement. Perhaps prudence can help you down to the Southern Ocean, Sydney, or even to the Celtic Sea?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 8:23:10 GMT -5
The Uetliberg rises to 2853 feet above sea-level - really no more than a hill - and since the Zürich Lake - which takes the form of a banana - is already 1542 feet above sea-level any one wishing to conquer the Uetliberg need climb at most only the difference: 1311 feet. The "Uotelenburg" was first mentioned in writing in the year 1210. It takes its name from one Uotilo or Uatilo, who later became Duke Odilo of Bavaria. Where he got his name from I cannot say. The great poet Klopstock climbed the Uetliberg in the year 1750. Of him Goethe relates "He was of small stature, but well built. His manners were grave and decorous, but free from pedantry. His address was intelligent and pleasing. On the whole, one might have taken him for a diplomat. He carried himself with the self-conscious dignity of a person who has a great moral mission to fulfil. He conversed with facility on various subjects, but rather avoided speaking of poetry and literary matters." As for the word "tram" it is Scotch in origin, and first noted around the year 1500. To-day the most pleasant way to make a start upon the Uetliberg is in fact to take the tram to the Albisgüetli terminus - the point marked 529 here: 529 is in fact the height in metres - 2010 feet already - so the remaining distance to be climbed is only 843 feet. The excursionist has a choice of two routes from this point, both quite steep. Here we see a stretch on the most direct way: The way is heavily forested and in winter the snow weighing down the fir-trees is especially picturesque. At the top of the paths (the point marked 781) one turns right and follows a wider track to the Uto Kulm, where there is a large and hideous viewing-tower. I attempted to ascend it but could not overcome a sense of acrophobia so turned back at the first platform. One of my little lovers on the other hand ran up to the top without a care. On the other side of the summit may be found a railway station; it provides frequent opportunities for transport back to the centre of Zürich should the climber find himself fatigued after his exertions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 15:25:42 GMT -5
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Post by Gerard on Aug 11, 2013 0:21:16 GMT -5
. . . Prudence is considered the measure of moral virtues since it provides a model of ethically good actions. "The work of art is true and real by its correspondence with the pattern of its prototype in the mind of the artist. In similar fashion, the free activity of man is good by its correspondence with the pattern of prudence." (Josef Pieper) . . . Josef Pieper a " Roman Catholic / philosopher" - something of a juggle for the poor old fellow that I should think. Where did you get hold of him kleines c? "All Art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril." - Wilde And those who join this forum do so at their peril, for we have three administrators!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 2:26:10 GMT -5
I suspect that I got hold of Josef Pieper via Wikipedia, Gerard, but it is an old quote, and I have not checked my sources this morning, so I could well be mistaken! As for art, well, I suppose that Oscar Wilde had a point! The nineteenth century German philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche, famously concluded that ' Gott ist tot[/b]'. What did he mean? God is dead, although he added that there may still be caves in which his shadow will still be shown. God's death was supposed to be a liberating event, just as Christians have always argued that Christ's resurrection on Easter Sunday is a liberating event. In the very first of his books, ' The Birth of Tragedy', Friedrich Nietzsche uses this phrase three times: What he is saying, I think, is that the greatness of the early Greeks, before Socrates, lay in their tragedy. He never really forgave the trivialising practice of rationalising everything with Socratic argie-bargie, or indeed, Plato for setting up a hero whose main qualities are those of talking everybody else into the ground, as has occasionally been attempted by kleines c himself! Friedrich Nietzsche may be asking, as indeed Shakespeare and Goethe occasionally ask, is the whole world really to be taken seriously, or is it not a great game, a great play like ' Hamlet' or ' Faust', some kind of drama played out by we know not whom, as a spectacle for we do not know whom? Can we make sense of such an aesthetic justification for mankind, Gerard? As for The Third's three administrators, the other two administrators will know me to be the lazy one, because I never even bother to administrate. I am more the Gladiator. YouTube - Gladiator trailerWhat we do in life, Gerard, echoes in eternity!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 3:26:51 GMT -5
As a matter of interest I turned on radio 3 on Friday and very much enjoyed Mahler's 2nd symphoney, all the more because of the distant bell sounds which reminded me of being in Italy, near the alps, climbing up an old tower in the snow and then hearing distant church bells very clearly. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BardonecchiaI must say, I most enjoyed the private guided walk, up at the top of the ski left, to the left, on snow shoes and seeing the little hut for people to stay in if lost. The noisy, colourfull ski holiday people are but fools, to ignore such sublime moments. You know, I was not much good at the ski thing, so gave up , and walked, I even wrote a poem about it ! Ski To ski or not to ski That is the question Awkward Boots Kit Galore Clumping Sideways up a slope Slide without control Thump on my bum Struggle to stand Bend, widen legs Lose control Scary slope Crowds clash Ruskin walked Turner walked I think, I shall walk!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 1:05:05 GMT -5
Kleines c - what summit is that, in your photo-graph? How curious it is that upon looking at the Wiki-pædia page about Garmisch one finds nothing about the Wank! To me it is the chief attraction of the place. In 1935 Herr Hilter gave orders that the town should combine with its neighbour, Partenkirchen, for the sake of some "games" in which he had an interest and being German the two obeyed without question and have remained wedded ever since. But indeed the Wank must thrust itself upon the mind of any traveller since it towers right there at the station when one alights from the carriage. The summit rises 5840 feet above sea-level, so since the station already lies at 2323 feet, a not inconsiderable ascent of 3517 feet lies ahead. Of the mountains treated thus far in this thread the Wank is evidently the second highest, behind Cozzy-osko at 7315 feet. My first attempt was unsuccessful. After miles of zig-zags which brought me about three quarters of the way up I came to a spot where the path led across a tiny stream, and here a kind of bridge of snow had formed. The snow bore the prints of many heavy Bavarian walking-boots the wearers of which must have crossed it uneventfully - whether thinkingly or unthinkingly I could not say. For upon inspecting this snow bridge I saw that it was only about a foot from top to bottom and underneath was clear air and a chasm. No obvious way around whether with or without hand-holds, so I retreated to the station. Later in the year I motored down from Unterpfaffenhofen and tried again. Between the zigs and the zags one passes through delightfully flower-strewn alpine meadows, upon one of which two German youths were camping in a tent. How envious I felt of their juvenility and their secret joys! It at once calls to mind Brahms does it not who in his formative years so often went out camping with his bosom friends. As I ventured on I met a descending Bavarian gentleman attired in one of those odd costumes they wear, and sporting a funny feather in his hat. Upon sight of me he exclaimed "Auch kein Mantel!" This means something like "No coat what is more!" What was more than what I can only guess; I suppose the obvious fact of my being a foreigner may have amounted to my initial crime. Anyway I responded - too brusquely perhaps - that my choice of apparel could not possibly have been his business. He waited a few seconds until he had got himself safely onto a lower zag and then shouted up "Ja Ja!" (This is not the only time that my climbing dress has been remarked upon; when walking up Mount Takao a Japanese lady - a complete stranger who spoke excellent English - told me that I ought not to have been wearing a tie!) Shortly after this encounter I attained the summit of the Wank, which turns out to be a grassy knob. The spectacles therefrom are remarkable; and may be recommended to members: a particularly clear view of the Zugspitze for example. In contrast to peaks that are even slightly higher (such as Pilatus at 6982 feet) I experienced here on the Wank no ill-effects due to altitude.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 2:11:10 GMT -5
Good morning to you all! To all those who survived the night, what a night it turned out to be! Congratulations to all! If I may nevertheless address your question directly, Sydney: Kleines c - what summit is that, in your photo-graph? K2. I should perhaps confess that I never actually reached the summit. Bad weather forced us off the mountain, so I have never actually conquered any of the world's highest peaks! Upon reflection, perhaps ' The Wank' would have been more easily attainable, Sydney. The fairer sex often make such things trickier than one would necessarily want, however high one climbs! I suppose that from an evolutionary perspective, humanity originally came from the trees and walked tall on the African savannah, although our ability to climb back up those trees, or even into the mountains, has never entirely left us! So the human way of getting around is bipedal. We use our hands for other things! Cheers, all (Thursday morning breakfast coffee)!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 6:20:31 GMT -5
Sydney,
That was a lovely post and made my mind wander to summit walks, I must say that I have not been on the hills in many years, but notice that camping technology has progressed so very small but every effective inflatable mattress thingies are now available and at a good price, so may try a 'one night out' camp sometime.
To awake to birdsong is a mighty thing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 9:51:38 GMT -5
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