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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 6:03:34 GMT -5
Mr. Ferdinand Mount is a reliable writer, and he is greatly concerned about the long list of Mrs. Thatcher's male escorts. The truth about her relationships with men should be better known, he says, and so he has written in to give us all - or most of - the details, some of them quite shocking.
One - not necessarily the first - was "Tony" Bray with whom at one time she was "walking out" as Mr. Mount terms it. But after a couple of years Mrs. Thatcher dumped him, saying "I have changed. I don't want to see him again. He's a weird-looking chap!"
Then there was Willie Cullen, an energetic farmer who came down from Scotland to Essex to escape the agricultural depression. Of him Mrs. Thatcher remarked "He has a kind of naïveté that only Scotchmen can have. The funniest part is that although I have gone out with him twice, I can never catch his name and still don't know it. I am afraid he is becoming an awful nuisance." Eventually she passed Mr. Cullen on to her sister Muriel.
And of a third man companion she observed "He is not a very attractive creature. I can't say I ever really enjoy going out for the evening with him. He has not got a very prepossessing personality."
Mr. Mount goes on to tell us what a heavy drinker she was, and how she would so often shout at her poor timid husband Denis, accusing him of infidelity. Imagine the scenes! Once she had gained power, every so often she would sweep out the old "wets": Soames, Gilmour, Whitelaw, Patten, Clarke, Waldegrave, Howe, Joseph, Brittan, Lawson, Tebbit, Biffen, Heseltine. Her method of negotiation with men was "1) Interruption; 2) Repetition; and 3) Digression."
She secretly called Roy Jenkins "Mr. Shaky Jowls," James Prior "the false squire," and said of Heseltine that "he has every talent except brains."
In an interview Mrs. Thatcher once gave to Woman's Own she maintained that "there is no such thing as society." Do members agree with her there?
And I myself - never having been tempted to indulge in such behaviour - have absolutely no experience of what might go on when a woman like that "walks/goes out with," or "has a romantic friendship with" a male. Can any member with more experience of British society fill in the unspoken gaps?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 7:29:14 GMT -5
I cannot say that I have ever dated 'Maggie', Sydney Grew, she actually belongs to my grandparents' generation, but I have, in younger days, 'walked out' with girls who bear certain similarities. She was a scientist at university, for a start, and in my student days, I did date many a scientist, although none, I suspect, who could be mistaken for a Maggie!
Ay me! for aught that I could ever read, could ever hear by tale or history, the course of true love never did run smooth; but, either it was different in blood ...
There is always the question of who wears the trousers, so to speak, in such relationships, Sydney Grew, and in my experience, it is always going to be the fairer sex! Is this enough of an answer for you, Sydney Grew?
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Post by ahinton on Jun 18, 2013 15:51:28 GMT -5
Then there was Willie Cullen, an energetic farmer who came down from Scotland to Essex to escape the agricultural depression. Of him Mrs. Thatcher remarked "He has a kind of naïveté that only Scotchmen can have. "Scotchmen"? Mon Dieu! And there I was thinking that gin was her bevy of choice!...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 0:45:26 GMT -5
The Iron Lady preferred a bit more glamour, it seems, ahinton. As it happens, the principal first floor rooms of Goldsmiths’ Hall in the heart of the City of London have been transformed into an elegant Parisian salon of the 'thirties, so the summer exhibition takes us back to an age of glamour, something I suspect that the late Baroness Thatcher would have enjoyed. Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun, Maggie? Goldsmiths - Ultra Vanities' Ultra Vanities' features an extensive private collection of more than two hundred glamorous make-up cases from the 'twenties through to the 'seventies, including designs by some of the world's most revered jewellery brands, such as Cartier, Boucheron, Van Cleef & Arpels and Chaumet. The leading jewellery houses of the time created these unique "nécessaire de beauté" for their fashionable clientele, who required somewhere to keep all their essentials. Miniature marvels with spaces for a powder compact, lipstick, comb, cigarette holder, mirror and, occasionally, a little note pad and pencil, they chart the changing styles through the decades, from the sleek, elegant Art Deco period to the flamboyant 'seventies, via the colourful 'fifties. The Jewellery Editor - Ultra Vanities at Goldsmiths Hall in London: Bejewelled Makeup Boxes from the Age of GlamourWriting in the FT, Claire Adler reports that it would be easy to think such objects might be useful for keeping the true extent of a lady’s vanity a closely guarded secret, but evidently this was not the case. “Women would put make-up on in public at dinner, or in nightclubs. It was a liberated and brave new world thing to do,” says Meredith Etherington-Smith. Lovers and collectors of haute couture as well as jewellery are expected to visit the exhibition. Unsurprisingly, such pieces have a collector’s appeal. At a Christie’s auction in Geneva in 2012, a blackened gold evening bag by Marina B in the form of an elephant, set with yellow and white diamonds and pearls, soared past its pre-sale estimate to fetch a handsome SFr99,000 ($347,000). “The Ultra Vanities collection is fascinating not only because of the exquisite workmanship and the miracles of miniature engineering that go into their interiors, but because it shows the power these glittering relics have to evoke a vanished age of elegance,” says Meredith Etherington-Smith. FT - Vanity cases: Encrusted bags evoke an age of elegance Had Willie managed to find a vanity case for Maggie, Sydney Grew, my guess would be that she would have gone for him. Cheers, all (Wednesday morning breakfast coffee)! Camden Review - Ultra Vanities
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Post by neilmcgowan on Jun 19, 2013 2:14:55 GMT -5
Had Willie managed to find a vanity case for Maggie, I wonder what this dreadful hag's fascination was for men named Willie? I had not heard of Willie Cullen before. But she saved the reeking career of washed-up blunderer Willie Whitelaw, and promoted the career of the puny fellow who is today Britain's shameful Foreign Minister, Willie Hague. What a lot of willies they have been!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 3:34:16 GMT -5
Well, William the Conqueror, or 'Guillaume le Bâtard', as he was known to his French enemies, was something of a Willie, too, and we might yet see a King William V crowned in Westminster Abbey! Bill, Will or Wills are probably better nicknames?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 3:55:59 GMT -5
The Iron Lady preferred a bit more glamour, it seems, ahinton. As it happens, the principal first floor rooms of Goldsmiths’ Hall in the heart of the City of London have been transformed into an elegant Parisian salon of the 'thirties, so the summer exhibition takes us back to an age of glamour, something I suspect that the late Baroness Thatcher would have enjoyed. . . . Member kleines c is on the ball there! In fact Mr. Mount further reports the following exchange between Mrs. Thatcher and her sister: "He speaks with a frightfully Scotch [ sic] accent. I showed him the snapshot of you and I [ sic] together - and he said he could scarcely tell the difference so I should think we could easily substitute me for you [ sic]." "It is a plot out of a Thomas Hardy novel," continues Mr. Mount, "except that it ends happily. But there is no greater testimony to Mrs. Thatcher's ability to get her own way than her effortless marrying off of her elder sister (herself a fairly strong-willed character) to get rid of the incomprehensible Willie. The handover was delayed only because he gave her a very nice black-calf handbag and out of decency she had to go out with him a while longer." There is that expression "go out" again! I would really like to know what it involves step by step! Something else Mr. Mount says is worth relating: "Her tenacity had a peculiar character which, I think, conforms perfectly to Antonio Gramsci's famous formulation, 'pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.' Her assessment of the situation was always bleak and unvarnished. She had an absolute contempt for any semblance of wishful thinking, and an innate abililty to get to the heart of any really difficult or unpleasant problem and not to try to wish it away. She loathed politicians like Macmillan whose instinct was always to smooth things over - a loathing which was returned with knobs on. One of the reasons that she thrilled to the company of Keith Joseph was his gloomy tone." It would be interesting to know whether any of our own members can imagine themselves ever thrilling to the company of Keith Joseph?
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Post by neilmcgowan on Jun 19, 2013 5:01:45 GMT -5
It would be interesting to know whether any of our own members can imagine themselves ever thrilling to the company of Keith Joseph? The suggestion has ruined my appetite for lunch...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 11:45:15 GMT -5
Aware that my political inclinations lie somewhere to the right of Neil, Sydney et al., I would certainly be partial to the thrills of Keith, Maggie et al. Nevertheless, I wish to address the following point further, Sydney Grew: Upon reflection, I don't think that "going out" relates at all to sexual inclination. I remember when I was an adolescent, my mother nicknamed me 'Sir Galavant', because of my inclination to "go out", or to be more specific, " ... to go about with members of the opposite sex". Free Dictionary - GalavantThis was before the online revolution, so it generally involved ringing, or even being rung up (by a friend, not necessarily of the opposite sex), and arranging to "go out" (from home) on a date. On one occasion, I arranged to meet a girl friend in the queue for the Proms, in order to prom in the Royal Albert Hall (RAH). This was, in fact, my first experience of promming, if not my first experience of dating. It was hardly rocket science, Sydney Grew, although, as a scientist, I would have perhaps considered the music to be of secondary importance. As for this step by step guide, Sydney Grew, what specifically would you like to know?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 7:18:15 GMT -5
. . . I remember when I was an adolescent, my mother nicknamed me 'Sir Galavant', because of my inclination to "go out", or to be more specific, " ... to go about with members of the opposite sex". . . According to the O.E.D., the origin of the word "galavant" or "gallivant" is unclear. "Perhaps a humorous perversion of GALLANT," the editors suggest. And for the meaning they say "To gad about in a showy fashion, especially with persons of the other sex. Also merely = FLIRT." Well there at once is another question: of "gad" they in turn say, "Of obscure origin. The common view, that it is from the noun 'gad' (the supposed primary sense being 'to rush about like an animal stung by gad-flies') is possible, but does not appear to be favoured by our quotations. Possibly it was a back-formation from 'gadling' in its later sense of 'vagabond.'" And as primary meaning this: "To go from one place to another, to wander; especially to wander about with no serious object, stopping here and there, to rove idly. Also to 'gad about, abroad, out.'" It is all somewhat unsatisfactory do members not find? Never can mere suggestion be enough!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 8:24:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 15:20:17 GMT -5
Like Nelson, she did as she pleased
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