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Post by Gerard on Mar 7, 2015 0:22:54 GMT -5
What shall we do with the drunken sailor?
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Post by ahinton on Mar 7, 2015 11:39:40 GMT -5
What shall we do with the drunken sailor? Which one? I have no idea, anyway. What makes you ask? If you refer to one who is an employee of the UK Royal Navy (and why that and the same country's air force are royalised when its army is not I have less than no idea), perhaps he/she might be anong those being considered for redundancy as a consequence of government cutbacks intended (or so we're all informed with wearisome frequency) to reduce the UK deficit until it is wiped out altogether. Sorry - that's the best answer that I can give to a question whose intended purpose and motive evades me...
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Post by Gerard on Mar 7, 2015 23:23:45 GMT -5
What shall we do with the drunken sailor? Which one? I have no idea, anyway. What makes you ask? If you refer to one who is an employee of the UK Royal Navy (and why that and the same country's air force are royalised when its army is not I have less than no idea), perhaps he/she might be anong those being considered for redundancy as a consequence of government cutbacks intended (or so we're all informed with wearisome frequency) to reduce the UK deficit until it is wiped out altogether. Sorry - that's the best answer that I can give to a question whose intended purpose and motive evades me... Well the member is expected to consider whether drunken sailors exist, even, and why, and whether they are a good thing, or not. What is the place of alcohol in Life? Should we encourage it in schools?
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Post by ahinton on Mar 8, 2015 3:28:57 GMT -5
Which one? I have no idea, anyway. What makes you ask? If you refer to one who is an employee of the UK Royal Navy (and why that and the same country's air force are royalised when its army is not I have less than no idea), perhaps he/she might be anong those being considered for redundancy as a consequence of government cutbacks intended (or so we're all informed with wearisome frequency) to reduce the UK deficit until it is wiped out altogether. Sorry - that's the best answer that I can give to a question whose intended purpose and motive evades me... Well the member is expected to consider whether drunken sailors exist, even, and why, and whether they are a good thing, or not. What is the place of alcohol in Life? Should we encourage it in schools? This member has no obvious means at his disposal whereby to consider anything of this kind, having no access to reliable statistics on the subject. As to whether or not they ae a good thing, one might presume that, as being drunk in charge of a vehicle on the public highway is unlawful and as train drivers and airline pilots would lilkely get into similar trouble for being found drunk in charge of the trains that they drive and planes that they fly, is would presumably be the very opposite of a good thing, on the assumption by by "drunken sailor" you refer to a naval officer while on duty. The place of alcohol in life (by which I presume you to mean alcoholic drinks rather than other uses of alcohol) is far too large a question to answer fully here and I see no reason to introduce it into schools, either for teaching or administrative staff or for students.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 10:48:20 GMT -5
If I may address your question below directly, Gerard: What shall we do with the drunken sailor? As I have, on occasion, been the drunken sailor, I would argue that it is sensible not to drink too much when sailing.
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Post by ahinton on Mar 12, 2015 16:55:03 GMT -5
If I may address your question below directly, Gerard: What shall we do with the drunken sailor? As I have, on occasion, been the drunken sailor, I would argue that it is sensible not to drink too much when sailing. But surely drinking when sailing is one thing whereas doing so when in actually charge of a maritime vessel is quite another?
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Post by Gerard on Mar 17, 2015 4:01:16 GMT -5
If I may address your question below directly, Gerard: As I have, on occasion, been the drunken sailor, I would argue that it is sensible not to drink too much when sailing. But surely drinking when sailing is one thing whereas doing so when in actually charge of a maritime vessel is quite another? What the Member says cannot be! One thing cannot be quite other than another thing, because they are both things are they not. Even my dog, being one animal, cannot be quite another animal than my cat, because each has four legs and a tail and is thus not quite other than the other. Indeed nothing in the world can be quite other than anything else. Everything is related is it not. Only connect. So we advise the Member to take care of his "quites" and not play with impossibilities!
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Post by ahinton on Mar 17, 2015 6:34:31 GMT -5
But surely drinking when sailing is one thing whereas doing so when in actually charge of a maritime vessel is quite another? What the Member says cannot be! One thing cannot be quite other than another thing, because they are both things are they not. Even my dog, being one animal, cannot be quite another animal than my cat, because each has four legs and a tail and is thus not quite other than the other. Indeed nothing in the world can be quite other than anything else. Everything is related is it not. Only connect. So we advise the Member to take care of his "quites" and not play with impossibilities! I do not understand your logic here, lest it arise from insufficient clarity on my part, for which, if so, I offer due apology. My intended meaning was that, whilst it is one thing to consume alcoholic beverages while a passenger aboard a boat while it is sailing from one port to another, it is quite another to be doing so when in charge of said vessel (i.e. as its captain), on the like grounds that, whereas consuming such beverages while a passenger on a plane while it is in flight or on a train or coach while it is en route or in a car or other motor vehicle while someone else is driving it on a public road, it would be both dangerous and unlawful to do so when in charge of the boat, plane, train, coach, car, truck or whatever; in other words, the former may be deemed acceptable conduct whereas the latter would not. I hope that this clears up any misunderstanding. Incidentally, mentioning this reminds me of a lesson learned on an occasion many years ago when I was sitting in the front passenger seat in a car that was legally parked on a public road with its engine switched off and the handbrake on while I waited for its driver to collect a second passenger. A police officer in uniform approached, requested that I wind down the window and asked if I was the owner of the car and, I so, he required sight of my drivers' licence and insurance. I explained that I was not its owner and, when asked for her whereabouts, I advised the officer that she would be back very shortly. He was then about to back off when he changed tack and asked me to step outside of the vehicle. I thought this rather odd, as he seemed to have accepted that the car was not mine and I could see no reason for him to ask that I do this, so I became suspicious and asked him for sight of his ID which, with obvious annoyance, he showed me and then repeated his order for me to get out of the car; I could see that he was sniffing and, once I had complied, he asked if I had been consuming alcohol. I had not, so I said that I had not. He replied that he had reason to believe that I may not be telling the truth and claimed that he could smell alcohol in the car. I was then asked to take a breathalyser test and pondered as to whether I should refuse, as I thought this to be quite unnecessarily intrusive, but decided to co-operate anyway. While I was doing this, the car owner returned with her colleague and looked suitably astonished at what was happening. The test proved negative but the officer remained dissatisfied and observed that he could still smell alcohol in the car. He then asked the driver how long it had been since she had been driving it, to which she replied "about five minutes" and then if she had been drinking soon before or while driving it, which she hadn't and said so. He was nevertheless about to ask her to take a test as well when I suddenly had a brainwave. I told the officer to examine my neck at close quarters, which puzzled him and seemed momentarily to throw him off his guard, but he did so while I explained that, as he could see, I had a boil on it and had put some surgical spirit on it shortly before I got into the car. We all then had a good laugh about it, but I remained puzzled as to why he had questioned my conduct when the car was not mine, was legally parked, had its engine switched off and its handbrake on and I'd been sitting in a pasenger seat. He replied that, had I actually been drinking and tested positive, he could have charged me with being over the legal limit while in charge of the car, which I found hard to believe but, when later enquiring about this with the local Chief Constable, I discovered that the officer had been entirely correct; as I was the only person in the car and it was on a public road, I was technically in sole charge of it and, provided that it was capable of being driven or even moved by means of releasing the handbrake, I would be deemed to have broken the law. He added, however, that, as the officer had not alleged that I had made any attempt to drive it, the judge would almost certainly have let me off with a caution. The experience nevertheless lent credence to the old adage that one learns something new every day.
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Post by Gerard on Mar 18, 2015 7:13:12 GMT -5
Thank you for that story Mr. H, with its many thought-provoking legal points of a British nature.
Of course the constable's attention may have been attracted initially when he saw the female driver bowling up. A woman driving a motor is rather like a talking dog: one marvels at it not because it is done well but because it is done at all.
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Post by ahinton on Mar 18, 2015 12:38:42 GMT -5
Thank you for that story Mr. H, with its many thought-provoking legal points of a British nature. Of course the constable's attention may have been attracted initially when he saw the female driver bowling up. A woman driving a motor is rather like a talking dog: one marvels at it not because it is done well but because it is done at all. You raise several issues here. Firstly, your secoind sentence is notable only for its sheer absurdity - as pleonastic as it would be gratuitously patronising were it to be taken seriously by anyone. Secondly, why might the police officer's attention "have been attracted when he saw the female driver bowling up" (whatever "bowling up" is supposed to mean in this context which is clearly nothing to do with cricket) and to what exactly might it have been attracted, even had he actually seen her driving the car, which I thought that I had clarified that he had not, hence his asking me as to her whereabouts? Thirdly, I don't know where you derive your "talking dog" reference; whenever I've encountered that expression "one marvels at it not because it is done well but because it is done at all" it's been about a god walking on its hind legs. Lastly, what is so odd (at least to you) about a woman driving a car? (something which women have been doing almost as long as there have been cars). One presumes that the one concerned in the tale that I related had passed her driving test just like almost anyone else driving on public roads. As it happens, I know one who passed her police class 1 driving test - a considerably more stringent one than the advanced driving test run in UK by the Institute of Advanced Motorists (which she has passed first time at the age of 19) - first time at the age of 22.
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Post by Gerard on Mar 19, 2015 16:48:14 GMT -5
Mr. H, in Britain things are never what they seem. It has since the eighteen-fifties been the practice of the British secret police to conceal themselves behind suitable shrubs. I have no doubt that this was the case here. They are nothing if not well informed, and the two of you were in fact expected all along. Furthermore, the true purpose of the constable's questions had nothing to do with motoring, vehicle ownership or alcohol. He already knew the answers, and was seeking intelligence of a different kind. His purpose was to test whether you were a truthful person or some one who might attempt to deceive him. And so you can be sure that even as your incongruous lady friend accelerated away your name and every last detail of your behaviour and demeanour were being entered into his official diary, and have long since been transcribed into the giant data-base of population whence to this very day they may be called up whenever the need arises. Indeed your children and the generations of your children's children will continue to bear the burden.
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Post by ahinton on Mar 19, 2015 17:10:35 GMT -5
Mr. H, in Britain things are never what they seem. It has since the eighteen-fifties been the practice of the British secret police to conceal themselves behind suitable shrubs. I have no doubt that this was the case here. They are nothing if not well informed, and the two of you were in fact expected all along. Furthermore, the true purpose of the constable's questions had nothing to do with motoring, vehicle ownership or alcohol. He already knew the answers, and was seeking intelligence of a different kind. His purpose was to test whether you were a truthful person or some one who might attempt to deceive him. And so you can be sure that even as your incongruous lady friend accelerated away your name and every last detail of your behaviour and demeanour were being entered into his official diary, and have long since been transcribed into the giant data-base of population whence to this very day they may be called up whenever the need arises. Indeed your children and the generations of your children's children will continue to bear the burden. Wrong on several counts. The police office had no shrubs behind which to conceal himself and in any case made no attempt to do so; this was an urban situation, after all. The officer concerned was uniformed and attached to a local constabulary, not a "secret policeman". No one was "expected", nor could there have been any way of anticipating (or indeed any need to anticipate) the events as relayed. The entire experience was predicated upon opportunism du moment which eventually collapsed into mututal ribaldry when the real truth emerged. The suggestion that the police officer filed anything away has since been disproved (I won't reveal how, but I do know this for a fact) and, given that the occasion occurred almost 40 years ago and no one has ever referred to it again seems to clarify that no such suspicion as you implicity put forward has the lisghtest substance. Lastly, as I have no children and therefore no children's chidren so, it follows that, for this reason as well as any and all others, there is neither burden to bear nor indeed is there or will there be anyone to bear it.
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